Friday, January 09, 2009

Respect Thy Enemy.

A blog post in progress. Or rather, I'm half asleep and sure I'll become annoyed with my ramble later. Enjoy for now.

I am not saying you need to like your enemy. This is Warhammer. You don't even have to like your allies, neighbours or friends. They're all likely heretics, mutants or Elves anyway.

I do however have a current problem with disrespect. There is a side in this battle. They have many members who constantly insult their opposition. Call them derogatory names. Belittle their intelligence and resolve.
It's Order on Ostermark.

I mentioned previously a tactic that consists of breaking into a keeps inner doors and weakening them to the point of failure before backing off (in good order I might add). I've not seen it since, but then again I've not been playing nearly as much. Perhaps the ringleaders on Destruction have hit T4. Perhaps it's a tactic for later hours than mine.
Now Seph has stated that a guild on Ostermark-Order has used it, and it was his understanding that it tended only to crop up in guild-only or guild-majority warbands. That too could be true.

However having the ability to get 20 some odd rampaging characters to fight to a point and then break off? That's something worth admiring. The "legality" or fairness of the tactic aside. Sucessfully pulling it off is, to me, an achievement.

Why then do alot of Order players feel superior to Destruction? You didn't sucessfully defend, they sucessfully left. You didn't rout them, they've another objective in mind.
I've alot of respect for Destruction but I will still play the role of my character. Defeated Orcs and Goblins get laughed at. Defeated Elves aren't worthy of attention. Bloody manlings get a bit of glare (Allied manlings and Elves typically rate a glare as well, depending). However, that doesn't mean I think they aren't worthy of my time.

Shittalk is one thing. Bragging about what you have done and how easily the others fell before you? If they did, go right ahead. Calling Destruction names because you can't bring them to the battle? I'm sorry, in that instance, even if every zone is locked for blue, they're better because they're playing a game above you.

Order needs to grow up substantially.

Destruction are the enemy and I love them for it. They are the bar, they aren't there for ridicule, they're there for me to do better than. They are an enemy worth our while. Stop insulting them, you only insult your own side.


Anonymous said...

Hmmm, interesting to see it from the Order perspective on Ost. As a Destro, I have noticed another strange occurrence when trying to lock zones vs. Order.

Whenever we really try to push for a zone as Destro, Order will simply leave the area and not queue for any scenarios. This means we must focus on PvE and since most of Destruction is ADHD (myself included), we always seem to just give up at that point.

However, when Order tries to push for a zone, Destruction rolls out en masse like sacrificial lambs. We lack coordination and will continually feed you guys VPs by queuing for scenarios and breaking against the Order wall like a tiny wave on the rocks.

It seems there is a very different mentality in terms of campaign strategy going on between both sides.

Ardua said...

Granted you're up in T4, but I think I know why that is.

Certain members (who shall remain nameless until I feel bitchy) of a few guilds advocate "If we cant get the force, we pull away"

Rather than try and fight you they give up and go home, or try to co-ordinate lower zone locks.

I'm glad we're no longer seeing the Round Robin. Destro takes keeps in Dwarf while we work on Elf and then swap over, avoiding the slightest skirmish.

At the same time, every time that I personally have witnessed Destro pull back it's because it suited them somehow. Everytime I've seen my lot give up on a siege or fail to defend... "It's too hard" or "Let them take it then we take it back and everyone gets bags"

I will agree with you in that open field, Destruction seems to get hammered. When defending a keep ... ehhh it's gone both ways.

Still I do admire that, even if you're handing over VPs, you're still playing and trying to get them yourselves.

We'll see if mentalities shift when the good chaps Ive met in T3 move up.

arbitrary said...

Both sides do it on our server, I believe. I don't like it either.

Anonymous said...

What frustrates me to no end is this - I'm sure that both sides have their share of players who will belittle the other side. That's expected, if only because not everyone's going to be nice about competition. Thing is, Order on Ostermark (at least, from my perception) is much more vocal on the Warhammer Alliance forums about it, AND will smack-talk their own side in a similarly-vocal fashion for not playing/following their every whim. Drives me up the bloody wall, really. I mean, yeah, I want to fight Destruction on Ostermark just as much as the next guy, but I'm not about to belittle them for 'cheap tactics' if they win (IE: "u guys can only win by zerging lern2play omglolz"), nor am I about to publicly stroke my ego if they lose. In-game enemy or not, there's a baseline of respect that the majority really, really seem to forget about, and it honestly saddens me when I have to work alongside or associate myself with someone who happens to roll that way.

Anonymous said...

Heh, I'm usually saying this from the Order perspective. :)

Anyhow, the old "beat down the keep door so we can stealth the keep later" tactic has been around since the DAOC days. It pays to keep an eye on your keep doors if you happen to claim it... I definitely wouldn't call that an exploit since Mythic's allowed that tactic in two consecutive games.

Hey, if someone breaks down the door to your house and walks away, do you leave it laying open for the next guy to come in and take all your stuff? :)

Anonymous said...

I have to point out that you really can't take the posts on Warhammer Alliance as a true measure of Order or Destruction. I've played with some of the people who shoot their mouths (or keyboards) off on this board, and they are really quite level headed on Ventrilo. I suppose that the anonymity of the Internet brings out the worst in some people.

In the end, though, this really is like a tabletop game of Warhhammer. If you rant and rave at everyone who plays against you, you will find yourself wihtout anyone to play against.